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Initiate orgies.

8 people said 'Do this!'

Comments / Votes

sara
sara
January 19 2012  | LoveUnlove

i wanted to 'love' this but realized there is not that option. in utopia, this would be a great way of making the world a better place, but in reality i guess we would at best improve the moment if not making it extremely complex *depends on*.

Maarten
Maarten
January 19 2012  | LoveUnlove

I'm curious in hearing an argument which explains why this would make the world a better place. Anybody??

sara
sara
January 19 2012  | LoveUnlove

perhaps a certain sexual liberty/experience, beyond the norm today, would make this world a 'better place' for specific people. they would feel less restricted and in need to fit inside a box, hence more happy. still, as i wrote above, i doubt this is what would make the world a better place. plus, these changes are to begin with all about changing internally. even if on an external plane you would be free to do A B C, it does not mean you would feel free internally.
secondly, i do think it would create more of a mess initially (unfortunately) then a better place. still, it makes me smile!

Philipp
Philipp
January 19 2012  | LoveUnlove

maybe reducing of pressure, more social (?) interaction and therefore less isolation of the individual by communicating physically...?

I just blabla you know

fetapapa
fetapapa
January 19 2012  | LoveUnlove

I wrote it for fun, but thinking about it more seriously, I think that by liberating the Dionisiac, hedonistic side that we (to different extends) collectively have learned to dampen after centuries of pseudomoral oppression and gentrified ideals in life would bring out this different kind of animal that we all are in bed and release people from their mouse-wheel run - and grumpiness. Yes, I think this would make the world a better place.

Maarten
Maarten
January 19 2012  | Alnair and Bart love thisLoveUnlove

Yeah, I thought the idea was meant as a joke, but it's interesting to try to take it serious and see if it makes sense.

So you mean that going back to your sexual animal instinct makes the world a better place? And that the limits that are formed by society constrain us in a way that it keeps us from being happy and produces grumpy people? I'm not sure if I agree, I think these days everything is pretty much possible, if you google a little bit you'll probably find people that will be willing to join you in pretty much any sexual activity you feel like indulging in. So I'm not sure what it is we would need liberation from since I don't believe there are any limits, except the ones in our own minds.

Next to that, I'm not sure if such an action - which is based on sexual desire and lust - will make you happy. If you are comfortable until a certain degree (a roof above your head, food for today and tomorrow) the only thing keeping you from happiness is your own mind, and not anything external. And I believe yielding to each craving and temptation takes us actually further away from being happy and not closer.

Bart
Bart
January 19 2012  | LoveUnlove

i don't think it is really bad to have society constraints, to a certain level. That doesn't mean that i approve all current society constraints. And i totally agree the last sentence Maarten wrote above.

fetapapa
fetapapa
January 20 2012  | LoveUnlove

Hello.

If "yielding to each craving and temptation takes us actually further away from being happy" fundamentalist monks and nuns must be the happiest people ever. I doubt it (but don't know it).

I have food and shelter for the next while, but I find this far too little to make me happy - friends, family, security, drinking, socialising, sex, dance, being in nature, having my efforts recognised etc make me smile far more that eating and lying to a warm bed at night. Even if I could convince myself that a couple of things were enough, it'd be like creating a 'Plato's cave' for myself.

Back to the orgies. I think that this has two aspects. Let's name them the 'indulgence' and the 'possibilities' aspects.

Non Western civilisations (but also modern collectives at the fringe of our social reality) have (and had) vastly different attitudes towards indulgence. Many of our social constraints would have astonished and dissappointed them. And if you multiplied these views from alternate possibilities, social constraints would end up seeming completely arbitrary.

But ok, we live not in another civilisation so, picture yourself in a carousing party. It's late, drunken people dance under low light and loud music. There is shallow but spontaneous familiarity, a unique intimacy created by intoxication, exposed skin, and sharing together a moment that each creates and shares with everyone else. You behave very differently those moments. You open up (maybe too much) and do things you would not otherwise. You experience life and time differently and you would have put different priorities in life if someone asked you on that moment what they were. Social constraints would have made this night an attrocity to my grandmother. And I am glad that today they do not. The morning after, maybe you'd laugh on your yesterday self, but going to work, dealing with the fluff and the world feels different that the day before. This experience of indulgence has a significant (yet temporary) behavioural effect that leaks into your 'normal reality'. Also, having registered the common night marks and shadows your interaction with some of the people present (say the friends that you went to that party to).

I used parties as a more common experience, but the analogy does not change the essence. Would orgies make the world a better place? No, but the restructuring of priorities during animistic experiences and the possibilities it would open for human interaction could (and I think would).

Maarten
Maarten
January 21 2012  | sara loves thisLoveUnlove

@fetapapa, thanks for the thorough response!

I agree that there are many more things then just food and shelter that make us happy, indeed friends, family, sex, nature etc. I think there is an important difference though between things that make you happy, and things that your happiness depends on. I know for myself that I have everything a person needs, a nice place to live, amazing friends and family, a comfortable income, etc... Still I can find myself being unhappy because of arbitrary things that I don't have, or am not experiencing. And the moment I do have one of those things, I will find another thing that I need. I believe this is something natural, we always want something more, better, faster etc. That's how human kind evolves. But it doesn't make me enjoy life, because then I'm always running for something in the future, and I can never stand still with what is here right now. So I'm practicing to stand still :-) and let go of some of those cravings and desires.

Back to the orgies :-) I think I understand your party analogy, that by having a communal experience with people doing things that you would otherwise not think were possible (or able to) your perception widens and when you go back to your daily life you see things a little different. I also believe that this can get you closer to yourself and others and in that way make the world a little better. I think these experiences aren't necessarily connected to indulgence or sexuality though. I think it's about crossing your borders, daring to do or say something out of the ordinary. Like Neale Donald Walsch said it 'Life begins at the end of your comfort zone.' And getting out of your comfort zone can happen in many ways, I think in western society we often use alcohol and drugs for it, to let go of judgement and fear and have less limits. But I think you can do the same without intoxicants, simply by practicing being less judgmental and fearful. (nothing against alcohol & drugs btw...)

Ok, enough writing for now! Would be nice to have a face to face conversation about this, I'll invite everybody to my place on the last day of January, so you never know! :-)

ps. I've met some very happy monks and nuns in my life!!! Way above average!!! :-) (buddhist monks btw, not yet met any other kind of monks...)

Bart
Bart
January 22 2012  | LoveUnlove

Maybe what this idea is really about, is from time to time to really follow your senses and own ideas and not to feel constricted to expectations from society. That's what i read in the story about the party: go beyond social constraints is not the goal of the party, but it's what happens if the party is really good. And if all people on that party feel that they want to have an orgy, they should.
Orgy's should not be initiated, because that is in a way the same kind of artificiality as - that's how interpret your idea - what you try to go against.
Pulling or even forcing people over boundaries (even if the boundaries are artificial) would create peer pressure, people doing things they are not sure that they want to do but just do it.

fetapapa
fetapapa
January 23 2012  | LoveUnlove

You brought up some interesting points Maarten. And yes, it would be nice to meet. Let me know when you arrange something :)

Maarten
Maarten
January 23 2012  | LoveUnlove

I will send a mail. Probably it's next week Tuesday (the 31st :-) around 20:00. Cheers.

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